Haystacks & Hell Podcast

Seventh-day Adventism and fundamentalist Christianity are no joke, especially when you’ve been hurt by the church. But with enough time and distance, there’s also plenty to laugh at.

Santiago introduces himself and the podcast. Abby and Ami discuss their plans for the podcast, their backgrounds, why they left the church, and ask their friends the question: When did you know that god wasn't real?

Santiago, Ami, and Abby talk about death, heaven, hell, and Adventist eschatology. Abby and Ami ask their friends the vital question: Were you taught that animals go to heaven?

We discuss Adventist culture, diet, and the Sabbath, looking at the good and bad aspects of these things. Abby and Ami are joined by Alex, and they ask their friends "What's your favorite veggie meat?"

Santiago reads stories shared by listeners of the podcast: A woman who left the conservative fringes of Adventism, a trans woman from Puerto Rico, and someone who was raised in the SDA Reform Church.

We discuss John Harvey Kellogg, early Seventh-day Adventist attitudes towards sex, more modern attitudes, and our own experiences with sex education growing up in the church. Ami asks her friends: When did you learn what sex was?

Oh look, another sex episode! Santiago shares his experiences and some resources. Ami, Abby, and Alex discuss sex ed in the Adventist church and touch on dorm life, contraceptives, and the experience of growing up during the AIDS crisis. They ask their friends: What, if any, sex ed did you receive?

Santiago interviews his Gen Z brother Miguel about growing up Gen Z and Seventh-day Adventist. We laugh about sex ed, bananas, and fleeing our home in the middle of the night.

Santiago reads the letter he wrote to his parents about leaving the church and faith behind. Ami, Abby, and Alex talk about dealing with family who are still in the church. They talk about issues with the previous generation, as well as issues with raising kids.

Santiago shares a bit more about his experiences after leaving the church and shares a template of the letter he wrote to his parents. Abby, Ami, and Alex talk more about issues with raising your own children when your family wants to proselytize them, issues with aging parents, and whether people are happier with or without religion.

Santiago interviews the research team behind the ex-Adventist survey and research project called Eighth-day Freedom: Dr. Tom Arcaro, Dr. Duane McClearn, and Jeff, an ex-Adventist originally from Michigan.

Santiago interviews Melissa Duge Spiers, an award-winning memoirist, screenwriter, and essayist based in Silicon Valley, California. She grew up as a 4th generation Adventist, got baptized at 12, and left the church after high school. This is Part 1 of a 2 part conversation.

Part 2 of Santiago's conversation with Melissa Duge Spiers, an award-winning memoirist, screenwriter, and essayist based in Silicon Valley, California. They cover Melissa's journey with therapy after leaving the church, her current projects, and more.

Ami, Abby, and Misty talk about worldly literature, fiction, and the church. They discuss their experiences with forbidden books and the Adventist attitude towards fiction in general, and ask their friends if they read any forbidden books.

Santiago interviews Jeff, an ex-Adventist who used to work for ADRA and still does humanitarian work today. They discuss a bit of everything about growing up Adventist, including Jeff's experiences at an SDA boarding school and what it's been like leaving Adventism over the last 20 years.

Bonus episode discussing an upcoming "Human Sexuality Taskforce" announced by Ted Wilson, President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. Why talk about this? Because I care about the current and former Adventists who will be affected by this. Apparently the GC's homophobia is not clear enough, so they will be producing media to double down on this.

Santiago interviews Adam Kyle Jones, an ex-Adventist who studied to become a Seventh-day Adventist pastor at the SDA school Oakwood University. Kyle went from being a lifelong fundamentalist, conservative Adventist to an agnostic atheist. We cover his upbringing, deconversion, depression, and how he came out stronger on the other side.

Santiago announces updates to the resources linked on the Haystacks & Hell website, a new mutual aid project, and a call-to-action to help fellow listeners of the podcast.

Santiago interviews Matthew Vollmer, an ex-Adventist writer and English professor at Virginia Tech who just so happens to be the nephew of Ted Wilson, the current President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Matthew Vollmer, an ex-Adventist writer and English professor at Virginia Tech who just so happens to be the nephew of Ted Wilson, the current President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

Santiago interviews Cherie Marie, a body image coach, BodyBarre instructor, and former 4th generation Adventist who grew up in California, Ohio, and Berrien Springs, Michigan. We discuss food, purity culture, and much more including overcoming challenges with food and body image.

Santiago covers a brief history of race, slavery, and racism in the context of Christianity and Adventism. We look at the Bible, Ellen White's writings, and the history of how the Adventist church created a segregated conference system in the United States.

Santiago does a deep dive on the "amalgamation" quotes. Abby and Ami talk about bigotry in the Seventh-Day Adventist church and particularly in the southern United States culture of the church. The conversation covers racism, homophobia, dating, trans issues, segregated conferences, and "the amalgamation of man and beast."

Santiago interviews Erika Miller, an ex-SDA teacher, mom, and survivor of abuse. As a young child, Erika was abused by a deacon's son at her home church. She shares her amazing story of resilience, attending Newbold College in the UK, and eventually leaving the Adventist church.

Santiago interviews Morgan Clae, an ex-Adventist director, producer, and singer-songwriter based in Los Angeles. We discuss purity culture, her time at Walla Walla University, being a student missionary, deconstruction, and becoming agnostic. We also explore the meaning behind the lyrics of Wilder Things, Morgan's song on deconstruction and coming out.

Part 1 of 2: Santiago interviews Will James, an ex-Adventist husband, dad, lawyer, and TikToker based in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. We discuss his parents' conversion to Adventism (along with 30 of their friends?!) when he was two years old. Will grew up with a very literal interpretation of the Bible and Ellen White's writings, and eventually deconstructed everything.

Part 2 of 2: Santiago interviews Will James, an ex-Adventist husband, dad, lawyer, and TikToker based in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. We discuss writing wills for SDA church members, Will's deconstruction from Adventism, telling his parents, and navigating his own parental responsibilities after deconstructing at just the right moment.

Santiago and Saoirse discuss their very different childhood experiences with Halloween and read some stories from the ex-Adventist subreddit. Abby, Ami, and friends talk around a bonfire (bone fire?) about their experiences with Halloween. That last part of the episode is a little loud, but there's some fun stuff if you're patient.

Santiago interviews Charlotte Hayes (Charli), a Gen-Z ex-Adventist. She was adopted from Russia and brought to the U.S. as a baby by an Adventist couple. Growing up, Charli experienced emotional, physical, and sexual abuse at home. The police and Child Protective Services investigated, but nothing happened, so she ran away from home at 18. She now has over 500k people on TikTok who have been following her life story.

Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Charlotte Hayes (Charli), a Gen-Z ex-Adventist. She was adopted from Russia and brought to the U.S. as a baby by an Adventist couple. Growing up, Charli experienced horrific things at home. The police and Child Protective Services investigated, but nothing happened, so she ran away from home at 18. She now has over 500k people on TikTok who have been following her life story.

3rd and final part of Santiago's interview with Charlotte Hayes (Charli), a Gen-Z ex-Adventist. After escaping her abusive home, Charli discovered she didn't have proof of her U.S. citizenship, so she had to get a green card and worried about possibly being deported. We also discussed her journey of healing and leaving the faith she grew up in.

Santiago interviews Andres Pichinte (They/Them), a Gen Z ex-Adventist who went from fundamentalist Adventism and going door to door for Youth Rush (for two summers), to exploring esotericism and now Orthodox Christianity. We talk about growing up Adventist, being surrounded by conspiracy theories, and moments that made them question their Adventist faith.

Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Andres Pichinte (They/Them), a Gen Z ex-Adventist who went from fundamentalist Adventism and going door to door for Youth Rush (for two summers), to exploring esotericism and now Orthodox Christianity. We talk about growing up Adventist, being surrounded by conspiracy theories, and moments that made them question their Adventist faith.

Santiago shares some personal news, updates on the future of the show, and listener stories.